regarding investing in Sanctuary Bay, I just read about it on http://www.belizefirst.com/current.html :

SANCTUARY BAY DEVELOPMENT -- A BIG, FAT MESS With the former principals of the Sanctuary Bay real estate development having been jailed and the court-appointed receiver, Robb Evans Associates, and Sanctuary Bay owners and various development entities associated with Sanctuary Bay in legal disputes in both the U.S. and Belize, the whole situation at the development, which is located between Hopkins and the Placencia peninsula, is in chaos.

Observers say that Sanctuary Bay is an example of what can happen in Belize when real estate buyers don't check the background of developers and essentially invest big sums based on a web site and developer promises.

Jeff,

I agree with you completely about the possible shadiness in the real estate industry in Belize.  In fact, I recall that the people in San Pedro were disgruntled that someone we knew there had paid WAY too much money for his land.  They cited this kind of thing as driving the land prices up beyond their reach. Meaning it does NOT benefit the people of Belize, in general, for someone to pay too much for their property.

I think there are ways to notice if a piece of property  had spent a great deal (or even part of that) of time underwater or not, but I wouldn't suggest anyone buy anything before they had seen it in both the dry and rainy seasons (and perhaps make that near the end of the rainy season), which would be October/November.  Mid June would be a good time to see the beginning of the rainy season and the end of the dry season.  I read somewhere where someone suggested the end of the rainy season was more telling than the beginning, and I tend to agree with this, but if you aren't able to go in October, consider June.  It is very interesting to see the changing of the seasons, as it happens rapidly.  

I recall the Mayans telling us that the rainy season came to Toledo exactly on June 24th, and it did.  I thought how much the Mayans really haven't changed in a certain, precise, numerical way, from this and other things that we heard them say.  I don't know if they were reading this from an almanac or something, or if the rains are really that predictable, but these people are for sure into dates. :)

I don't think it's a good idea to buy anything until you have lived in the country for over a month, and ideally for at least six months, to agree with Elmer's earlier post again.

I don't know anything about Jonathan Lohr (except what I have heard just here and in emailing him).  I wasn't endorsing him or any other realtor.  I was suggesting to see what the realtors have land at, so you can compare these probably exalted prices with prices from locals, for whoever was interested.

We considered purchasing a piece of property in Toledo, from a Mayan villager, for a really pretty reasonable price, but I felt it was too close to a large river, and that part of the large river was too close to the sea (it was near a different village down the way).  We saw it in rainy season, and marked where flood waters had regularly flooded the banks, and it was solid ground. 

Still, if we had gone that route there would have been the need for a lawyer to handle the title etc.

Of course, buyer beware is the name of the game.  True anywhere, but especially true in a third world country where you are perceived as well to do based on where you come from.

Blessings,

Shannon

Hello.

On the real estate issue, let me comment on our (the four of us) experience in January in Belize.  We interviewed three Realtors and Jonathan Lohr was one of them.  Another was an older British guy and the third was Chris Carridi.  Important to note:  there are no licensing requirements, no regulatory oversight to speak of and there are significant title issues with a lot of BZ properties.  I caution you to be very careful in who you deal with.  The best advice we received was to go for a month or so and make decisions after that.  The four of us sought God fervently for wisdom in this area, as buying property was one of the primary objectives we had.  Jonathan Lohr was recommended by someone Gabe new as a contact, but he is not a believer, as none of the others were either.  I will not use this forum to comment on Jonathan or any of the other people, but pray for wisdom here, really.  Jonathan offered to broker a large piece of land and help establish a community, but the problem is that none of us could accurately gauge the value of property area.  That is why it is best to be there for a spell before any real decisions, unless you know enough already.  We found out that many Americans get suckered into paying way too much for land - the Realtor buys the land from someone real cheap and resells it to the ignorant American for a huge profit (and no one know the Realtor was even involved at all).  It seemed to all of us that a good lawyer was key in the process (as long as you were confident that he wasn't in the deal either!).  Also, our understanding that property in Spanish Lookout where the Mennonites are was hard to come by unless you were a Mennonite.  That is a very nice area of BZ, but you may want to talk to some of the Mennonites about that if you go.  They practically have their own government there,a s they pay taxes to themselves, have their own banks...the whole area looks more like American than any other part of BZ.  Again, please be careful if you are considering a Real Estate purchase without much knowledge there.  Flooding is horrific in some areas.  Cayo is the safest all the way around.

Jeff 

Hi,

I wanted to add to my list of things I would like answered, and this does have to do with some "listed" real estate.

We get the listings from Ceiba Realty -- Jonathan Lohr.  And there are several in the Cayo District that look good.  If anyone that is going there soon would care to check them out, and I am talking low to very low cost and with springs and/or year round creeks, this might provide a good price/product comparison to finding something available from locals. www.ceibarealty.com (I believe).  There is a subdivision, in Cayo, with smaller acreages, springs, a creek, road (at least proposed) and with an option to save money by purchasing more than one lot.  I would think this type of thing might actually be interesting, possibly, to a group such as this one.  I would have to look for the exact listing, and need to get off now, but do consider checking out Ceiba realty.

I agree with Elmer on every point he brought up about the need for onsite investigation, and getting a feel for a place. With one exception: if we are thrown into a sitatuion in the USA that requires action in order to protect our rights as free Christians we may need to rely at least somewhat on the experiences of others in order to spy out the land.  Like-minded others, I meant to say.

I agree with Kathy that living somewhere near the well-established, peace-loving, God-fearing, industrious, farming Mennonites is probably a wise idea, for buying good food, if nothing else.  

Blessings,

Shannon    

We would be intersted in rental costs in both of those areas, and the availability of smaller farms and acreages, for reasonable prices.  Also, water considerations, such as land with springs being available in the north etc.

Our hope would be subsistence farming, but we realize that we may most realistically be looking at trying to generate the $25K to do a business (probably construction) start up.  Right now, my words feel a little like they are blowing in the wind, so let me say, Lord willing, if we live, and if the Lord tarries.  It will be an act of God for us to be able to do this, but with God all things are possible, so we aren't giving up, but trying to stay optimistic.

We have a deep rock well drilling rig that, IF we get there, and get it in with us, we would be willing to loan anyone in the group.  There are ways that wells can be drilled to simulate springs, so that if you were downhill from your well the water could gravity feed to your house and garden. 

Thank you, in advance,

Shannon

That is good information to have available. Thank you blessdx10. This is our first post on Belize-Now are I am looking forward to traveling to Belize with your husband and son. We are leaving on the 19th and will meet up with them in country.

Does anyone have any additional questions they would like answers too? We will be there for 1 week spending most of our time in the northern and central districts. We plan to stay in Spanish Lookout for a good part of our trip.

How much you would need to have upfront will depend on many factors (how many in your family, where in Belize you intend to live, HOW you intend to live, your occupation...)

You have really only 2 options for just staying in Belize for more than 30 days: (there is also a work permit program, but very limited access)

~Tourist Card - when you get to Belize, you can stay for 30 days free on your free visitors permit which can then be (must be) renewed every 30 days (1st 3m are $25/mo, next 9m are $50/mo-this is per family member).  I did read on one site that you must leave the country every 3mo. for 48 hours, but couldn't find the post again...? You are not allowed to work in Belize during this time, but I do believe that you can run a business that employs Belizeans (I don't really know about just yourself as a self-employed whatever...)

~Retired Persons Status:  one member of your family must be 45, and you must show that you have either $525k in the bank, or monthly income of at least $2k deposited into your bank account (to prove that you will not be a financial burden to Belize).  This then qualifies you to bring that money into Belize tax free, and you also are allowed to bring in certain personal possessions without paying duty (boat, airplane, 1 vehicle...).  Wait of anywhere from a couple of weeks to 3 months.   Great way to get in if you qualify.

To apply for Residency  - you must live in Belize for 1 year, during that time leaving the country for not more than 14 days.  You also must show documentation that you will not be a financial burden on Belize(qualifications do not stipulate a specific $ amt., this is up to them) - they want you to bring money or jobs with you, not take them away from their nationals (they already have a 12% unemployment rate, and are employed at $15-$20/day avg.(we spend more on groceries!)).  Cost to apply for residency is $1000/family member, and of course this is after the required monthy tourist card fees for the year (adds up!) You will also be required to pay duty on things that you brought in when you arrived as a tourist (newer vehicles can run 80% of value!).

 As for how much money (besides above costs) -

where will you live (what area) -ousing costs vary greatly per area.  In some areas, it is $1k to rent an apartment/condo (tourist/retirement areas), and in other places you can rent a decent house for $150/mo.  Keep in mind that houses are not generally as spacious as here (do real estate searches), and building is expensive as most materials must be imported.  Electricity is 150% what it is here, with the average bill being about $125 without a/c.  Calling to the US is $1.29/minute+, and fuel is about 25% more than here.   It sounds like it is not a good idea to buy property quickly due to changes during the rainy season (you may find your dream property is a swamp 6 months of the year), and there is a lot of property/homes for sale in Belize compared to the # of buyers.  While this means that you may find a good deal initially, you may not be able to unload it later if you want to move to a different area.

 If you plan on eating like the Belizeans, then your food costs may go down, but you will not be eating for pennies!  If you like your processed foods, and shopping at a grocery store, expect your food costs to skyrocket (double+).

 Please keep in mind that you will have 'extra' expenses just like here; vehicle liability insurance is required, if you think medical coverage is necessary(your US carrier probably won't cover you, and health ins. there is very limited-we know of one couple who is moving back mostly for health coverage)...  If you have problems with mold (allergies), Belize is NOT for you - we were advised to not even bring books due to mold issues.

You will NOT be able to get a job at the rates that you are accustomed to here in the US - even with expatriates (a mason(brick/block layer) makes $25/day there; they make more than that /hour here).  Eventually, you may be able to attain a maintenance income, and some claim even a good income, but this is down the road - keep in mind that it always takes time to establish a business and build a clientelle/reputation.  Living between now and then will take liquid funds.  There is a demand for techy jobs (computer...).

There are also lots of things that are not available in Belize (and cost extra to ship there): homeschooling supplies (even general books!), upper scale electronics, hobby items-including nice sewing machines ;)  , upper-end sheets, towels, and mattresses, kitchen supplies(dishes, pots/pans...), hand and power tools...  (but the Mennonites make great furniture!).  Many people do not have items that we take for granted here, like dishwashers and clothes washers (&dryers); if you want high end items, take them with you.You also need to have money in reserve to be able to leave if you decide that Belize is not for you; besides travel expenses, you will need to pay at the border to get out!

One consideration that is big for our family is the fact that there are no longer any gun permits being given.  To anyone.  Growing up in Montana, we have always had guns for sport, hunting, and personal protection.  There we would not be able to own any kind of firearm, for any purpose (at this point), including for protection, and crime is definately an issue in this country - at least the police are not crooked like in Mex. and Guat.

For our family, we have decided that if we choose Belize (or wherever), we will keep 3-5years worth of maintenance money in reserve.  Moving to another country, especially a 2nd or 3rd world country is a huge step - please be sure that this is what God would have for YOUR family - then seek His face for your own preparations/goals. 

My info is based on months of research (we started looking into Belize even before the election), and a great pen-pal (what to they call them when it's email?) who lives there.  We have not personally been there yet, though a trip is in the works.   PLEASE thoroughly research the culture that you are thinking of moving into for yourself!  Do not go there intending to change them at all (I'm not talking about ministering) - you are a GUEST/in THEIR country.  And please, do not bring the US government with you - that is why many of us are leaving!

A great site to either check on specific queries or just general info. on Belize is:  http://www.belizeforum.com/belize/